Rubin2020_PCW slack archives day1-mon-slot1a-plenary-construction 2020-07-15---2020-08-13

Wed 2020-07-15 02:45PM
@Melissa Graham has joined the channel
Wed 2020-07-15 02:45PM
@Ranpal (she/her/hers) has joined the channel
Wed 2020-07-15 02:45PM
@Emily (she/her) has joined the channel
Melissa Graham Wed 2020-08-05 02:43PM
@Melissa Graham set the channel topic: Plenary 1 - Construction Q&A
Use the Zoom Q&A and this channel to submit questions.
Pre-recorded presentations available: <>
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-07 12:25PM
Session: Plenary 1 - Welcome, Construction update + Q&A
Date/time: Monday August 10, 2020 - 9am PDT
Details: - preview material
William O'Mullane Fri 2020-08-07 05:27PM
Is this the correct channel for this plenary ?
Emily (she/her) Fri 2020-08-07 05:27PM
Robert Blum Fri 2020-08-07 07:18PM
Wait, that's the right answer no matter which channel (for plenaries)
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 11:03AM
Hi everyone, quick reminder that there are three pre-recorded presentations available on : an Overview of Rubin Observatory, a Construction Update, and an analysis of the Impact of LEO Satellites. It's absolutely not necessary to watch them, but they might fuel questions for this morning's Q&A plenary.
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 11:03AM
During the plenary, type your questions into the Zoom webinar Q&A or here in this Slack channel. I will be monitoring this Slack channel and speaking out questions that are posted here. Feel free to @ me, and use positive reactions ( :white_check_mark: :heavy_plus_sign: :100: :+1: ) to "upvote" others' questions. This Slack channel is also to be used for comments and conversations about Construction, not just questions. So go ahead and start discussions!
Suzanne Mon 2020-08-10 11:34AM
I'll point out you can watch the pre-recorded presentations at faster speeds to save time. Use the Playback Speed option in YouTube; 1.5 works well for me (x2 was too fast!).
Merlin Mon 2020-08-10 11:38AM
Tip on getting finer control
Tom J Wilson Mon 2020-08-10 12:00PM
I appear to have no audio/video setting control: can I confirm that this is because they're off and out of my hands? Or should I have the options and need to mute myself? Would obviously like not to be unmuted the entire time with no ability to control the setting :slightly_smiling_face:
Emily (she/her) Mon 2020-08-10 12:01PM
Yes, this meeting is set to have attendees muted and without video.
Tom J Wilson Mon 2020-08-10 12:01PM
Great, thanks
Emily (she/her) Mon 2020-08-10 12:03PM
Luis Pineda Mon 2020-08-10 12:02PM
can you tell us how many attendees there are
Emily (she/her) Mon 2020-08-10 12:03PM
Luis Pineda Mon 2020-08-10 12:08PM
Emily (she/her) Mon 2020-08-10 12:02PM
Frank Kenney Mon 2020-08-10 12:03PM
Robert Lupton Mon 2020-08-10 12:04PM
Attendees from Greenland? Exciting if true
Michael Strauss (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 12:26PM
Can somebody put those links into Slack?
Merlin Mon 2020-08-10 12:26PM
Links are pinned to this channel
Robert Blum Mon 2020-08-10 12:27PM
THANK YOU Organizing Committee!
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 12:28PM
If you're interested in the DEI session from the video that just played, join #day5-fri-slot1a-dei and visit the session webpage
Jim Annis Mon 2020-08-10 12:30PM
The google form is linked there in the session webpage...
drphilmarshall Mon 2020-08-10 12:33PM
Anyone else just get kicked out of this session's Zoom webinar? Wondering if I did something wrong...
George Beckett Mon 2020-08-10 12:34PM
No problem here. So may just be you, I'm afraid
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 12:34PM
Uh oh that should not happen - did you get an error message or anything?
William O'Mullane Mon 2020-08-10 12:34PM
thre was a user with a LOOOOOON name
William O'Mullane Mon 2020-08-10 12:34PM
kicked off
drphilmarshall Mon 2020-08-10 12:35PM
That might have been me - I noticed that when I signed in. No idea why it got assigned to me, I just went with it.
William O'Mullane Mon 2020-08-10 12:35PM
was that you phil?
William O'Mullane Mon 2020-08-10 12:35PM
but you got several chats from Tom asking WHO you were ..
drphilmarshall Mon 2020-08-10 12:35PM
Im guessing yes.
William O'Mullane Mon 2020-08-10 12:35PM
ok connect again.
drphilmarshall Mon 2020-08-10 12:36PM
Zoom chats? I failed to spot them.
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 12:36PM
phil you are a host
William O'Mullane Mon 2020-08-10 12:36PM
Zoom yea
drphilmarshall Mon 2020-08-10 12:36PM
I had the talk on in the background, so maybe dind't spot.
William O'Mullane Mon 2020-08-10 12:36PM
but you should have a panalist link
drphilmarshall Mon 2020-08-10 12:36PM
For this morning? No - I am panelist tomorrow morning.
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 12:36PM
you should be coming in with the unique link Regina sent
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 12:36PM
i'll DM you your link
drphilmarshall Mon 2020-08-10 12:37PM
OK, I'll go look for that. Thanks!
Michael Solontoi Mon 2020-08-10 12:39PM
My zoom dropped out, but then it reconnected. Maybe we're on the same ISP section.
drphilmarshall Mon 2020-08-10 12:39PM
@Michael Solontoi No, I think I was singled out for removal :slightly_smiling_face:
Frossie Mon 2020-08-10 12:51PM
FYI zoom seems to sign you out if you sign in from a different device (unlike BJ) in case that helps.
Regina Matter Mon 2020-08-10 01:00PM
Hi Phil- I resent you an email with PCW access. I still don't see you have joined? Let me know if you need any help?
drphilmarshall Mon 2020-08-10 01:53PM
Thanks @Regina Matter - I saw that email but failed to appreciate that I was supposed to use the special alt-host link for all sessions, not just the ones were I was responsible for hosting. What happened was I joined as a regular user, but for some reason Zoom assigned me a very long random name, which raised a red flag with @Tom Patterson who then kicked me out. (I also joined using my gmail address, not my Stanford address, so it was harder to see who I was). I was able to rejoin as a regular (non-host) user, by giving one of my other addresses (neither my Stanford one, which identifies me as a host, nor my gmail one which was still barred). I didn't rejoin with my host credentials, because when I tried that, Zoom asked whether I wanted to start the session, and I did not not want to risk causing problems: I wasn't sure whether Zoom would stop and restart the webinar, so I didn't risk it.
drphilmarshall Mon 2020-08-10 01:54PM
For the sessions where I am needed as co-host I will join using the special alt host link provided. Thanks!
Regina Matter Mon 2020-08-10 02:33PM
Hi Phil- I have sent you an email response. Thank you. Regina
Robert Blum Mon 2020-08-10 12:34PM
not me
Frank Kenney Mon 2020-08-10 12:34PM
all good here
Emily (she/her) Mon 2020-08-10 12:34PM
You must be the one that Tom thought looked like a bot.
drphilmarshall Mon 2020-08-10 12:35PM
@Emily (she/her) I think you're right!
Merlin Mon 2020-08-10 12:36PM
Sign back in as Phil "definitely not a bot" Marshall
Emily (she/her) Mon 2020-08-10 12:36PM
Robert Nikutta Mon 2020-08-10 12:38PM
HI, just wondering if the quality of the shared slides on the Zoom screen is very poor for others as well? (video of Victor is clear, it's just the slides...)
Emily (she/her) Mon 2020-08-10 12:39PM
It looks pretty good to me
William O'Mullane Mon 2020-08-10 12:39PM
good in spain
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 12:39PM
slides are coming through clear for me as well, here in Seattle WA
Ken Smith Mon 2020-08-10 12:39PM
Good in Northern Ireland too.
Robert Nikutta Mon 2020-08-10 12:40PM
Thank you, it must be the individual network I think.
Frank Kenney Mon 2020-08-10 12:39PM
Very Nice Here
Julio Camargo Mon 2020-08-10 12:39PM
It appears "out of focus" to me most of the time.
Abh Mon 2020-08-10 12:39PM
Indeed, the quality is poor but there is a link to he actual slides.
Robert Blum Mon 2020-08-10 12:39PM
You don't want to hear me talk to slides. Bring your questions tomorrow to #day2-tue-slot1a-plenary-operations
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 12:40PM
Plenary slides for today:
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 12:43PM
Quality and resolution all good for me
Carlos Gonzalez-Fernandez (He/Him) Mon 2020-08-10 12:44PM
Emily (she/her) Mon 2020-08-10 12:44PM
Chris Lintott Mon 2020-08-10 12:44PM
This may be covered elsewhere, but what's the current survey start date, and what's the current assessment of Covid impact on that? Or is it too early to say?
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 12:45PM
@here ask your questions here or in the Zoom Q&A
Tom J Wilson Mon 2020-08-10 12:45PM
Can I extend that same question to commissioning, if it's not covered in the answers
Michael Strauss (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 12:49PM
M2 has been coated, and is sitting in a box. If the start date of the survey is significantly delayed, is it possible that the coating will degrade, and will need to be redone before the survey starts?
Merlin Mon 2020-08-10 12:51PM
Coating chamber is on the summit, and the mirrors are regularly recoated, so even if that's necessary I'm not sure how big of a deal it would be. Obviously this quick off-the-cuff answer from a non-senior-manager shouldn't stop this question being relayed if this answer is insufficient or insufficiently official.
Michael Strauss (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 12:53PM
Thanks, Merlin; the question is how big a deal it would be in practice. (I also don't happen to know how often the recoating was scheduled to happen.
K-T Lim Mon 2020-08-10 12:54PM
AFAIK, M2 coating was intended to have a 5 year lifetime. M1/3 was 2 years, I believe.
K-T Lim Mon 2020-08-10 12:54PM
Cleaning/washing is more frequent than recoating.
K-T Lim Mon 2020-08-10 12:54PM
(but doesn't require dismounting)
Rstreet Mon 2020-08-10 12:50PM
Some uncertainty in the data center was mentioned briefly - can they give more details on how and when that will be decided?
Robert Blum Mon 2020-08-10 12:53PM
@Rstreet we can talk about this at tomorrow's plenary. DOE in coord with NSF is lining up a process to select a US DF. They have not yet finished details of the process but we hope there will be a public announcement soon.
Rstreet Mon 2020-08-10 12:54PM
OK, I can post the same question tomorrow
ldacosta Mon 2020-08-10 12:54PM
instead of NCSA ?
William O'Mullane Mon 2020-08-10 12:55PM
Robert Blum Mon 2020-08-10 12:55PM
NCSA is the DF for construction and commissioning.
Jim Annis Mon 2020-08-10 01:02PM
There is some indication of the thinking in:
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 01:03PM
@Rstreet thanks for this DF question - based on the initial response from @Robert Blum I didn't voice today, but let's be sure to raise it tomorrow :thumbsup: :thankyou:
Robert Blum Mon 2020-08-10 01:04PM
We can discuss more tomorrow at the Ops Plenary. The idea is DOE will run a process to select the DF for ops. They have discussed a Funding Opportunity Announcement that would be open to US institutions as leads of the DF. The awardee would be funded by DOE for the survey.
Chuck Claver Mon 2020-08-10 12:57PM
@Michael Strauss (he/his) Yes - the coating of M2 is a concern. We continue to monitor the properties of the M2 coating. As we get closer to a re-plan post COVID we will evaluate - with the current trends we will lean on planning to re-coat M2 before the start of operation.
Michael Strauss (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 12:57PM
Thanks, Chuck!
Rstreet Mon 2020-08-10 12:57PM
Has there been any engagement with LEOsatellite operators other than SpaceX, in the mitigation efforts? Ultimately, mitigating the impacts of Starlink satellites is great, but would need to be extended to the other fleets.
Michele Bannister Mon 2020-08-10 07:56PM
Well, it's good to hear that at least Amazon and OneWeb are talking...
Chris Walter Mon 2020-08-10 12:58PM
Hi All,

One quick suggestion: One thing I found in the many virtual conferences this summer is that it works best if we try to answer and discuss each question in it's own thread. That makes it easier for people later who can't attend in real time too.
Jeff Carlin Mon 2020-08-10 01:00PM
For those who aren't familiar with Slack, you can thread replies by using "Reply in thread." (If you are one of those newbies and are reading this - this is what threads look like.)
Tiago Ribeiro Mon 2020-08-10 01:00PM
Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 01:01PM
thank you!
Luis Pineda Mon 2020-08-10 01:01PM
Thanks !!!!
Carlos Gonzalez-Fernandez (He/Him) Mon 2020-08-10 01:01PM
George Beckett Mon 2020-08-10 01:01PM
Thanks (couldn't work out how to clap in Zoom, I'm afraid.
Ken Smith Mon 2020-08-10 01:02PM
Don't think you can "clap" in a plenary session where we're all muted!
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 01:02PM
you can clap here
George Beckett Mon 2020-08-10 01:02PM
Yes, that makes more sense. Thanks
Julio Camargo Mon 2020-08-10 01:01PM
Sara (Rosaria) Bonito Mon 2020-08-10 01:02PM
Christian Mon 2020-08-10 01:02PM
De Marte De QuiƩn Mon 2020-08-10 01:02PM
Hector Velazquez Mon 2020-08-10 01:02PM
Frank Kenney Mon 2020-08-10 01:02PM
Lorena Hernandez Mon 2020-08-10 01:04PM
David Buckley Mon 2020-08-10 01:05PM
:+1: thanks
Jari Backman Mon 2020-08-10 02:32PM
Christa Gall Mon 2020-08-10 02:37PM
Thanks! :+1:
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Tue 2020-08-11 08:29AM
The recording of the live session is here:
Rosemary Dorsey Thu 2020-08-13 04:00AM
Q: Just curious as to whether there is a specific reason why it is discouraged to use 'VRO' as an abbreviation for the Vera C. Rubin Observatory?
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Thu 2020-08-13 05:21AM
We are the first US National Observatory to be named after a woman. We want to celebrate the name and repeat as much as possible in both the verbal and written form. In VRO the name is hidden in a letter and so doesn't get the visibility we want and that Vera deserves.
Rosemary Dorsey Thu 2020-08-13 06:17AM
What a great initiative! Thanks for the information, Ranpal.
Robert Lupton Thu 2020-08-13 09:40AM
Ask people how they refer to the Daniel K. Inouye Solar Telescope (d-kissed?)
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Thu 2020-08-13 10:04AM
and your point @Robert Lupton is?
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Thu 2020-08-13 10:05AM
saying Rubin is faster than saying VRO
Robert Lupton Thu 2020-08-13 10:07AM
That people pronounce initials as words, which is why NSF thought that "VRO" would obscure Vera Rubin --- no-one thinks "Inouye" when they say "d-kissed"
Robert Blum Thu 2020-08-13 10:28AM
Right, And NSO is now trying hard to deprecate use of DKIST which is pronounced as Robert said.
Adam Thornton Thu 2020-08-13 12:45PM
Which works for the bodies themselves, but cannot control how the rest of the world refers to the thing.
Preethi Nair Thu 2020-08-13 01:19PM
I think "Rubin" will catch on fairly quickly. Rubin and VRO may both be used just as Hubble and HST are both used. People say Hubble more than HST and write HST more than Hubble. The same is likely to happen with Rubin/VRO.
Preethi Nair Thu 2020-08-13 01:20PM
Once the acronym is defined.
Robert Blum Thu 2020-08-13 01:27PM
@Preethi Nair this is what we are trying to avoid.
Preethi Nair Thu 2020-08-13 01:42PM
@Robert Blum That will be hard. I am thinking about proposals/paper formats where there are strong character constraints. That forces people to use acronyms. I will use Rubin and Vera Rubin Observatory (VRO) as much as possible but I know that I will have to use VRO sometimes.
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Thu 2020-08-13 02:14PM
We really hope people will try to not use VRO. Action on our side has been:
remove it as an acronym for Rubin in wikipedia contacted editors at APJ, MNRAS etc l try to look at the papers on ads and contact authors Happy for more ideas on how we can make Rubin stick over VRO
Adam Thornton Thu 2020-08-13 02:19PM
I mean in short "controlling the discourse to the extent possible". Being insistent about it in high-impact journals is probably a good plan (let's presume that the communications team has access to and time to read all the preprints, which I kind of doubt in practice), but it doesn't help with the larger media problem.
Adam Thornton Thu 2020-08-13 02:20PM
That said, the Rubin Observatory is a lot less outside-astronomy sexy than the HST. I mean at least until we launch the mirror into space.....
Adam Thornton Thu 2020-08-13 02:21PM
So it may not be much of an issue. Presumably stuff that's written by the Papers of Record, TV interviews, that kind of thing are going to rely heavily on the project itself for sources, in which case you have the opportunity to remind them, "it's not 'VRO'".
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Thu 2020-08-13 02:43PM
btw it's the camera that is going to be launched into space
Adam Thornton Thu 2020-08-13 03:08PM
ooooh well that's less exciting