Rubin2020_PCW slack archives day5-fri-slot1a-dei 2020-07-15---2020-08-18

Wed 2020-07-15 02:56PM

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Keith Bechtol Thu 2020-07-23 05:36PM

@Keith Bechtol set the channel topic: <https://project.lsst.org/meetings/rubin2020/agenda/session/diversity-inclusion-and-equity>

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Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 12:28PM

@Melissa Graham set the channel topic: <https://project.lsst.org/meetings/rubin2020/agenda/session/diversity-equity-and-inclusion>

Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 02:38PM

@channel welcome! we welcome questions and DEI related discussions ahead of friday's session here

Ranpal (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 02:45PM

Just wanted to share with y'all that I've been working on a list of job sites https://ranpalgill.github.io/HUM/ that are minority focused and submitted a proposal to https://github.com/astropy/project/blob/master/finance/InclusionDiversityEmpowerment.md to have this expanded and improved

Nino Cucchiara (he/him/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:49PM

@Ranpal (she/her/hers) this is great, what is the column "cost"?

Nino Cucchiara (he/him/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:50PM

I am helping STSci to reach out to HBCUs and MSIs to broaden their pool of applicants

Ranpal (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 02:55PM: this is key and it i why i started this project on StrikeForBlackLives day and am still working on it!
Nino Cucchiara (he/him/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:55PM: :+1:

Ranpal (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 02:50PM

how much they charge to post a job

Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 02:51PM

(^^ and TVS! @Nino Cucchiara (he/him/his) is in the TVS JEDI group - Justice Equity Diversity and Inclusion)

Ranpal (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 02:51PM

i am trying desperately to get hold of HBCU alumni listserves

Nino Cucchiara (he/him/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:52PM

Oh gosh!

Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 02:52PM

@rapal I have connections here with DSU Lincoln and Howard (all in my geo area)

Ranpal (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 02:52PM

so if you have success let me know, i want to add them to this list

Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 02:52PM

and I have a pending proposal to connect DSU students to Rubin research .... pending .... from NSF

Nino Cucchiara (he/him/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:52PM

I can connect you with NSF HBCU-UP Program officers

Nino Cucchiara (he/him/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:52PM

and NSF HSIs

Ranpal (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 02:53PM: what is HSI?
Nino Cucchiara (he/him/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:53PM: hispanic serving institutions
Nino Cucchiara (he/him/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:54PM: I do not know at the tribal colleges, but we can find out from the other two program officers
Nino Cucchiara (he/him/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:54PM: I will put you in touch asap

Ranpal (she/her/hers) Wed 2020-08-12 04:17AM

*********** Homework *************
https://project.lsst.org/meetings/rubin2020/agenda/session/diversity-equity-and-inclusion
Just a reminder. The organizers would like attendees to do some light homework to help make the session on Friday as successful and impactful as possible.
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Ranpal (she/her/hers) Wed 2020-08-12 04:18AM

Monday homework:
Reflect on the PCW sessions you participated in and on the interactions you had with members of the Rubin ecosystem. Think about the instances in which DEI initiatives were mentioned and ways in which the PCW and the Rubin ecosystem have demonstrated to support inclusivity. Look also for any evidence of lack of inclusivity and anything that may indicate ways in which the Rubin world is exclusionary and may not embrace and welcome all members. Continue paying attention to this throughout the workshop and use these reflections on Friday in the DEI discussion.

You can select your sphere of influence any time before Thursday 23:59 PDT with https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=https%3a%2f%2fdocs.google.com%2fforms%2fd%2fe%2f1FAIpQLSd5zcYJF83VtgVskdh5hKGRsbUU29kLqtLizchbYs1A5YxyJA%2fviewform&umid=B99B16F6-ACA2-DE05-8C79-CA472B11CEA3&auth=f95e8f518a5a1451e680168b3f9df426ddd6fc8e-7051b99a4c6c7b8b3347988e8901d4cdb2038278 .
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Ranpal (she/her/hers) Wed 2020-08-12 04:21AM

Tuesday Homework:
Prepare for the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion session on Friday is to read the "Call to Action" chapter (starting on PDF page_53) from the https://www.aip.org/sites/default/files/aipcorp/files/teamup-full-report.pdf :

You can select your_sphere of influence any time before Thursday 23:59 PDT with_ https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=https%3a%2f%2fdocs.google.com%2fforms%2fd%2fe%2f1FAIpQLSd5zcYJF83VtgVskdh5hKGRsbUU29kLqtLizchbYs1A5YxyJA%2fviewform&umid=B99B16F6-ACA2-DE05-8C79-CA472B11CEA3&auth=f95e8f518a5a1451e680168b3f9df426ddd6fc8e-7051b99a4c6c7b8b3347988e8901d4cdb2038278 . If you would be willing help moderate or scribe_one of the breakout discussions, please fill out the form by Wednesday so that we can reach out to you to help prepare for the_breakouts.
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Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Wed 2020-08-12 04:22PM

Wednesday Homework:
Prepare for the DEI session on Friday by reading "Theory of Change Basics"
http://www.theoryofchange.org/wp-content/uploads/toco_library/pdf/ToCBasics.pdf _: a primer to the Theory of Change. This reading provides a framework and step-by-step process to approach sustainable and long-lasting organizational change. We intend to begin the first steps of the process for the Rubin world during the session on Friday.

Please select your_sphere of influence any time before Thursday 23:59 PDT with_ https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=https%3a%2f%2fdocs.google.com%2fforms%2fd%2fe%2f1FAIpQLSd5zcYJF83VtgVskdh5hKGRsbUU29kLqtLizchbYs1A5YxyJA%2fviewform&umid=B99B16F6-ACA2-DE05-8C79-CA472B11CEA3&auth=f95e8f518a5a1451e680168b3f9df426ddd6fc8e-7051b99a4c6c7b8b3347988e8901d4cdb2038278 . If you would be willing help moderate or scribe_one of the breakout discussions, please fill out the form by _Wednesday _so that we can reach out to you to help prepare for the_breakouts.

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Bob Abel Fri 2020-08-14 12:34AM

"The Time is Now" was powerful and well written - thank you for that. It seems to focus primarily on retention, but I wonder what AIP does and can do for recruitment, including high school and younger interactions with college/university astronomy programs, and what assisting with preparation for the college experience, which would include more than just academics.

Michelle Lochner (she/her) Fri 2020-08-14 06:22AM

Hi all. I'm very sorry to be missing this session tonight due to a conflict but I wanted to let you all know about a programme I run called the Supernova Foundation. I'll paste some text below and would appreciate it if you can share this widely in your networks. I'd like to especially encourage the many wonderful senior women (postdoc and up) here at the PCW to apply to be mentors, we're heavily oversubscribed and need as many mentors as we can get! Thank you!

Michelle Lochner (she/her) Fri 2020-08-14 06:22AM

The Supernova Foundation ( https://www.supernovafoundation.org/ _) is a virtual mentoring programme designed to inspire and support young women and gender minorities who hope to pursue careers in Physics.

The gender gap in STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) fields is a serious international societal problem which needs to be addressed. Many women, particularly women from disadvantaged backgrounds, do not usually have access to women role models to inspire and guide them. It is extremely challenging for women of many cultures to find mentors they can easily talk to and get advice from. We aim to remedy this by connecting women students in Physics to established women researchers around the world to receive mentoring.

The Supernova Foundation aims to:_
Provide personal mentorship for women students as they transition to postgraduate studies by established women physicists. Provide guidance on various topics including: career choices, application process, CVs, work-life balance and gender-specific harassment. Connect and provide a support network for women in Physics across the globe at different stages of their career._ Host and record webinars with useful advice and interesting discussion.

If you are a woman student (undergraduate or postgraduate) in Physics who would like to achieve her full potential with the help of internationally established mentors, please apply as a mentee!_

If you are an established woman Physicist (already holding a PhD and working in a Physics-related field) who would like to share her knowledge and experience with students from all around the world and connect to other established women scientists, please apply as a mentor!

Applications are open continuously with no deadline and we particularly encourage applications from gender minorities and disadvantaged backgrounds.

Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 11:45AM

Session:_ https://project.lsst.org/meetings/rubin2020/agenda/session/diversity-equity-and-inclusion
Date/time: Friday August 14, 2020 - 06:00 HST - 09:00 PT - 12:00 EDT - 18:00 CEST - 02:00 AET +1
Connection:_ https://stanford.zoom.us/j/98832453445?pwd=OENTRlBrWGQ5VlNFWnRmeXJSWlZWZz09 _(Passcode: 797134)
Preview material:_ https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=https%3a%2f%2fdocs.google.com%2fpresentation%2fd%2f19xLPP7PMKX9ycFy%2dX7vdAl3StqHzk6u4xVKsPqpB7PU%2fedit%3fusp%3dsharing&umid=B99B16F6-ACA2-DE05-8C79-CA472B11CEA3&auth=f95e8f518a5a1451e680168b3f9df426ddd6fc8e-977b1f788f90fdad5f0f82e177b0ebcbef321751 _/_ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0Ylx8tVTuA
Advance questions_ https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=https%3a%2f%2fdocs.google.com%2fforms%2fd%2fe%2f1FAIpQLSd5zcYJF83VtgVskdh5hKGRsbUU29kLqtLizchbYs1A5YxyJA%2fviewform&umid=B99B16F6-ACA2-DE05-8C79-CA472B11CEA3&auth=f95e8f518a5a1451e680168b3f9df426ddd6fc8e-7051b99a4c6c7b8b3347988e8901d4cdb2038278 _(Deadline Thursday 23:59 PDT)
https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=https%3a%2f%2fforms.gle%2fUCZmKJL8tpThJ1PA9&umid=B99B16F6-ACA2-DE05-8C79-CA472B11CEA3&auth=f95e8f518a5a1451e680168b3f9df426ddd6fc8e-d91283e4093d3d94e6588d60721d92b6476afc9c _- feedback any time

rowen Fri 2020-08-14 12:01PM

Note that the Zoom link in the Agenda page is incorrect.

Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 12:03PM: I still see it as correct... maybe reload page?
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 12:04PM: @rowen can you reload your Agenda page and tell me if it now links to a zoom room # 98832453445
rowen Fri 2020-08-14 12:06PM: The link is to https://stanford.zoom.us/j/98832453445?pwd=OENTRlBrWGQ5VlNFWnRmeXJSWlZWZz09
rowen Fri 2020-08-14 12:06PM: I'm afraid to try it since I am already in the meeting.
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 12:06PM: Yes that's the correct link, all good, thank you!
rowen Fri 2020-08-14 12:08PM: OK. And I did just leave the meeting and try it and it worked. It certainly didn't work when I first tried to join the meeting, but maybe I had an old version of the page.
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 12:08PM: Yes we did some Zoom room shuffling yesterday to ensure a smooth running today, sorry about that...

This message was deleted.

Emmanuel Gangler Fri 2020-08-14 12:04PM: For France, there may be an interest. Please contact our communication officer, @Gaëlle Shifrin .
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 12:05PM: I'm so sorry I accidentally deleted the message trying to quickly delete my own!! :disappointed:
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 12:05PM: Cannot figure out how to undo this, really sorry
Emmanuel Gangler Fri 2020-08-14 12:06PM: Oops :wink: Hope the original poster can find back my answer ...
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 12:06PM: Could someone @ the original poster? I can't see the deleted message or I would...
Emmanuel Gangler Fri 2020-08-14 12:09PM: This was about IAU interest in beta-testing Rubin's material for communication and education purposes outside US. I didn't got the time to catch the name however.
Dan Taranu Fri 2020-08-14 12:12PM: I think it was @Patricia
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 12:21PM: I did some Googling and it seems there is absolutely no way for me to recover that message I accidentally deleted with my admin powers :disappointed: really sorry again

Andrés Plazas (he/him/his) Fri 2020-08-14 12:04PM

Hi all! This is the session webpage: https://project.lsst.org/meetings/rubin2020/agenda/session/diversity-equity-and-inclusion (also pinned)

Robert Lupton Fri 2020-08-14 12:19PM

That link sends me here

Andrés Plazas (he/him/his) Fri 2020-08-14 12:20PM

It works for me, mmm. Could you please try the one that was pinned by Federica?

Andrés Plazas (he/him/his) Fri 2020-08-14 12:09PM

You can find the Zoom links there

Lucianne Walkowicz Fri 2020-08-14 12:09PM

Fed's pinned post is correct

Rob Bovill Fri 2020-08-14 12:12PM

is there a way to look up which sphere we chose? you know, in case someone forgets...

Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 12:19PM: @Rob Bovill --- @Keith Bechtol or @Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) might know, but, you need not join the sphere you indicated in the form - please choose whichever is appropriate for you today (this also came up in the Zoom chat)
Rob Bovill Fri 2020-08-14 12:19PM: Ok. Thank you.

Dara Norman Fri 2020-08-14 12:13PM

I seem not to be registered and cannot get to pages. Is there some way to join science prioritization sphere?

ajc Fri 2020-08-14 12:14PM: I think the link is https://stanford.zoom.us/j/98864059902?pwd=Q3MraVVXYzNNM3o1WEJQUTlQYVY4dz09
William O'Mullane Fri 2020-08-14 12:15PM: ok I will invite you
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 12:15PM: @Dara Norman I don't see you on the registrants list, no. I think you're not registered.
William O'Mullane Fri 2020-08-14 12:16PM: Hiranya was faster

Rstreet Fri 2020-08-14 12:14PM

I think you can simply join the appropriate Zoom channel on the website, @Dara Norman

Ranpal (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 12:14PM

@William O'Mullane can you DM Dara?

Dara Norman Fri 2020-08-14 12:14PM

Thannks but yeah... can't see the information about those channels.

Will Clarkson Fri 2020-08-14 12:15PM: Hi @Dara Norman - I believe the channels are the ones at the bottom of this link: https://project.lsst.org/meetings/rubin2020/agenda/session/diversity-equity-and-inclusion
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 12:16PM: Unregistered participants cannot view that page. It is restricted because it contains open Zoom links.
Dara Norman Tue 2020-08-18 03:45PM: Weird... I am not registered somehow but got the google calendar with (nearly) all the links! That one just didn't work!

Rstreet Fri 2020-08-14 12:15PM

Oh I'm sorry I misunderstood your message: try this: https://stanford.zoom.us/j/98864059902?pwd=Q3MraVVXYzNNM3o1WEJQUTlQYVY4dz09

Hiranya Peiris Fri 2020-08-14 12:15PM

I added you @Dara Norman

Ranpal (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 12:17PM

FYI i think the individuals rooms are not here because people need to come to the main overview before showing up in a sphere room?

Andrés Plazas (he/him/his) Fri 2020-08-14 12:17PM

This is the Google doc for the breakout sessions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DGlklETg82xUpQEP7U0dZcyy_BWagXq6i95f0AL-9vU/edit

Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 12:22PM

A. Admissions and Hiring --_ https://stanford.zoom.us/j/91694983384?pwd=UzNKbmZxc2g2b3RBL0ZyakVma2QyZz09 B. Outreach and Com. --_ https://stanford.zoom.us/j/96606995964?pwd=N2FRWXZDbjRjNWE5MktRdTNqQkNaQT09 C. Science Prioritization --_ https://stanford.zoom.us/j/98864059902?pwd=Q3MraVVXYzNNM3o1WEJQUTlQYVY4dz09 D. Meetings --_ https://stanford.zoom.us/j/91682976478?pwd=blBHSXNxREo5T1owaTJyUkV3ZEJlZz09 E. Classroom Education --_ https://stanford.zoom.us/j/94234429691?pwd=T0hxVVVQZXc1dUhOMXdTa2FoMU1CQT09 F. Students --_ https://stanford.zoom.us/j/93939878809?pwd=M0lyMXFpT1JxZkJpMm5LU0hDdzJvQT09 G. Workplace Interactions --_ https://stanford.zoom.us/j/92935817543?pwd=TTBTWlpUekFUeEhvUGMzVGd2aXhVZz09 H. Broader Impacts --_ https://stanford.zoom.us/j/95374162348?pwd=WE5RYlJhNGJEU2Vwb3dZYUxMZm9VQT09 I. Other --_ https://stanford.zoom.us/j/95480635527?pwd=UUNZek4xaDhJQzRxQlVKT1pLS3ovUT09

Chuck Claver Fri 2020-08-14 12:24PM

Something to consider... The issue we face regarding diversity, equity and inclusion runs deep in our societies - Rubin will not solve these issues on its own, but our community can serve as a catalyst - we might want to discuss ways in which we can become an example.

Keith Bechtol Fri 2020-08-14 12:44PM: Thanks Chuck. We hope that the Rubin community can be an example. With thousands of people involved at institutions around the world, I think we have a lot of leverage, and can influences those around us in our institutions and other science colleagues

Keith Bechtol Fri 2020-08-14 12:41PM

Reminder that there is about 5 more minutes for breakout discussion

Andrés Plazas (he/him/his) Fri 2020-08-14 12:42PM

Main room: https://stanford.zoom.us/j/98832453445?pwd=OENTRlBrWGQ5VlNFWnRmeXJSWlZWZz09

Keith Bechtol Fri 2020-08-14 12:45PM

Let's reconvene in the main room in about 1-2 minutes

Keith Bechtol Fri 2020-08-14 12:45PM

@here :point_up:

Lucianne Walkowicz Fri 2020-08-14 12:50PM

uh I can't get the meeting popup to pop up

ajc Fri 2020-08-14 12:51PM: https://stanford.zoom.us/j/98832453445?pwd=OENTRlBrWGQ5VlNFWnRmeXJSWlZWZz09
ajc Fri 2020-08-14 12:51PM: the other link didnt work for me either
Michael Solontoi Fri 2020-08-14 12:51PM: Maybe try again now - it took me three tries to connect properly.

Andrés Plazas (he/him/his) Fri 2020-08-14 12:50PM

We are at the main room!

Knut Olsen Fri 2020-08-14 12:51PM

@Lucianne Walkowicz I had to remove the #success tag from the URL to get it to pop up

Andrés Plazas (he/him/his) Fri 2020-08-14 12:51PM

Individual reflection form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeTTMG77CBd3t5HGsm4rki6sc1B1XUaRdGjhr1lozXMRmR6Qg/viewform

drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 12:55PM

Really looking forward to seeing everyone's reflections - I think there'll be a lot of "oh yeahs" there... Will they be collected and presented somehow?

Dara Norman Fri 2020-08-14 01:00PM

@Chuck Claver While that may be true, Rubin has had an extremely poor record in the past. and this past sits squarely with the LSST/Rubin leadership.

Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 01:02PM

zoom chat.txt

Michael Strauss (he/his) Fri 2020-08-14 01:02PM

Thanks to Fed, Keith, Andres and everybody for leading this very important discussion!

Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 01:03PM

please give us feedback! We gave ourselves some : not enough time for what we wanted to do..... but we can do better next time with your help

Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 01:03PM

^^ on the whole thing

drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 01:03PM

That was great, thanks very much @Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) @Andrés Plazas (he/him/his) @Keith Bechtol ! The hiring/admissions season is upon us: could you perhaps help our particular breakout group stay in touch with each other? We could maybe help each other out working through our interventions as we actually make them...

drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 01:05PM: @Melissa Graham suggested an LSSTC Slack Channel, spinning out of the existing inclusion channel somehow. It'd be a real service to make one for those of us working on admissions/hiring and put us all in it :slightly_smiling_face:
drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 01:07PM: +1 for single channel guests if needed, as per @William O'Mullane 's suggestion at the end of the zoom call. And @Aprajita Verma made the good suggestion of widening this to all the breakout groups (one LSSTC Slack Channel per breakout group or somesuch).
drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 01:08PM: Fed also proposed coordinating by http://community.lsst.org first, for maximum inclusion - I think that could work too, as long as people are comfortable sharing their ideas, practices, and mistakes in public.
drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 01:10PM: Melissa and Fed worked on this a bit in the break after the session, but the SOC will do some more strategic thinking as well. Community has some strong points: tags etc, as well as inclusivity.
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 01:20PM: I really wanted to come to Hiring but am glad i ran Meetings. Re hiring i've been working on this tool: https://ranpalgill.github.io/HUM/
Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 01:20PM: thank you so much for doing it!!
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 01:33PM: Yes! The LSSTC Slack Channel wasn't actually my suggestion -- someone else asking in the Zoom Chat whether there was one that could be used long term, for people who do use LSSTC Slack. Then it was suggested that LSSTC Slack members could use #inclusion for this. But I agree :100: that http://Community.lsst.org is perhaps better suited for this kind of discussion. :thankyou:
Aprajita Verma Fri 2020-08-14 02:23PM: we should also keep channels open for anonymous comments and input. For many ECRs and BME members, making public comments can be daunting, especially if there are lots of big names around. So the anonymous form that was set-up for this session was useful and has purpose, That capability should not be lost when moving to community.
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-14 02:29PM: @Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) :point_up: something to consider. http://Community.lsst.org doesn't support anonymous posting, so anonymous input needs to come via a different channel.
Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 02:30PM: hmmmm how about a form?
Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 02:30PM: any ways we could feed a form directly to community by a mock account?
Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 02:31PM: but yes, def something to consider!
Aprajita Verma Fri 2020-08-14 03:00PM: as long as there's one person receiving the anonymous comments (e.g. through this form or another one) and can post on the submitters behalf, that would also work.

mwv Fri 2020-08-14 01:03PM

A structural problem is that leadership positions have been relatively static within the Project, dating to even before construction. This has benefits in intellectual and relationship continuity, but it has severely restricted the number of openings and opportunities.

Ranpal (she/her/hers) Sun 2020-08-16 01:55PM: @mwv I don't want to speak out of turn but I disagree, a number of us have been hired/promoted in leadership in the last 3-5 years including me, Amanda, Lauren, Leanne, Sandrine (and we had Beth for a while). Is our impact completely unnoticed/invisible? (p.s. not to mention the white males hired in the last 3-5 years in leadership), so how is this static?

mwv Fri 2020-08-14 01:04PM

E.g., a set of 2-year or 3-year positions provides many more options for many more people.

Preethi Nair Fri 2020-08-14 01:06PM

SDSS runs an annual demographic and climate survey which informs what activities their Committee On INclusion in SDSS (COINS) works on. LSST could create a similar demographic survey, if they aren't doing so already. See: https://www.sdss.org/collaboration/coins/ and https://arxiv.org/abs/1505.06199

Preethi Nair Fri 2020-08-14 01:11PM: I would suggest getting in touch with SDSS COINS reps to get their advice and current survey questions. The current survey questions have been revised based on past survey responses to be more inclusive.
drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 01:12PM: Thanks @Preethi Nair . Tagging @Robert Blum @Amanda Bauer @Ranpal (she/her/hers) to make sure we clock this.
Preethi Nair Fri 2020-08-14 01:16PM: There are a number of guideline documents (best practices, meeting accessibility, chairing guidelines etc) that have been formulated by SDSS COINS which are available at: https://www.sdss.org/collaboration/coins/#docs

Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 01:07PM

this https://lsstc.slack.com/archives/CJXEPRD1R LSSTC channel exist on the LSSTC slack for inclusion conversations! we (the SOC etc) are discussing how to organize the discussion further!

Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 01:10PM

we are also working (as I speak) on creating a http://community.lsst.org category to continue this discussion

Fri 2020-08-14 01:12PM

@Robert Blum has joined the channel

Ignacio Reyes Fri 2020-08-14 01:12PM

[we talked about this in the workplace breakout but may be useful to mention it here also] In the case of Chile, where the Rubin observatory is placed and the Rubin community has a large presence, this issues can arise in different ways. The problems that the black community faces in the US, like racism, colorism, discrimination, police brutality, etc. are also present in Chile and specially affect indigenous people, and mostly Mapuche people.

drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 01:15PM: At the very start of the session, there was a little bit of zoom chatter about the specific US-centric focus on Black students. I think working through this specific example today will be useful for us when re-applying the process thinking to other areas of inequity and discrimination. Good to have in mind the indigenous people of Chile, for sure.
Robert Blum Fri 2020-08-14 01:52PM: This is a very important topic. Rubin and AURA/NOIRLab take our role with staff in Chile very seriously. We need to make space to discuss issues in Chile that effect staff, especially, while they are at work and which they care about, but we also have to take care about broader public discussions, positions, engagement which are not appropriate for Rubin itself as an organization. We are guests in Chile with a very specific mandate to carry out scientific research. There is room in that mandate to exercise principles of justice, inclusion, and equity as an organization.
Ignacio Reyes Fri 2020-08-14 02:08PM: Sure, there are some topics that may not be appropriate for the Rubin observatory as an institution to have a public position, like the relation between the Chilean state and the Mapuche people. This is a complex issue and it would be inappropriate for an international institution to 'intrude' into such topics, although we as individuals may express openly a position about these matters. In any case, there is a lot that Rubin can do in Chile related with racism, colorism, discrimination, etc

Markus Rabus Fri 2020-08-14 01:17PM

I hope this discussion will not be forgotten, and will continue the next year, and the year after that, and ... continue ...

Preethi Nair Fri 2020-08-14 01:20PM

Another SDSS program which Rubin LSST may want to consider is the SDSS Faculty and Student Team (FAST) initiative which pairs teacher+students team from HBCUs and other minority serving institutions with an SDSS partner or collaborator to work on a research project. Please see: https://www.sdss.org/education/faculty-and-student-team-fast-initiative/

Knut Olsen Fri 2020-08-14 01:24PM: Rubin LSST had such a program 10-15 years ago, but which really fizzled out. Any thoughts on how to ensure that it is sustainable?
drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 01:24PM: The construction project had a FAST initiative, back when it was straightforward to fund it (because of the phase of work the project was in at the time). We're looking at the feasibility of rebooting it for operations.
drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 01:24PM: Oops - message crossed with @Knut Olsen 's!
drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 01:25PM: Good idea for us to pick SDSS IV's brains on this as well.
Preethi Nair Fri 2020-08-14 01:26PM: It would definitely be great if the initiative could be restarted. Also if the science collaborations were involved.
drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 01:26PM: Another hot tip for @Robert Blum and @Amanda Bauer
Jeff Carlin Fri 2020-08-14 01:27PM: Yes, I would love to see something like this from Rubin. Is it worth seeking external funding for that (outside the main operations budget)?
Preethi Nair Fri 2020-08-14 01:27PM: Since I am part of SDSS, I know of their initiatives. I am sure other large collaborations have their own programs which Rubin LSST could learn from.
Preethi Nair Fri 2020-08-14 01:29PM: SDSS gets funding from the Sloan foundation for the FAST teams. This could be a type of project that would be attractive to foundations and other donors.
mrawls Fri 2020-08-14 01:30PM: I've been an unofficial FAST mentor (it required faculty mentors on paper :face_with_rolling_eyes: ) and it's a good program.
Amanda Bauer Fri 2020-08-14 01:31PM: Yes, as @drphilmarshall mentioned, we are currently reflecting on what happened with LSST FaST and how we can implement an improved version within the Rubin Operations framework.

Great to see support!

Ken Herner Fri 2020-08-14 01:24PM

Another similar program is the DOE Visiting Faculty Program, though it's tied to the national labs: https://science.osti.gov/wdts/vfp

brant Fri 2020-08-14 01:30PM

Following up on the above statement by @mwv on Rubin leadership. In the breakout I asked the Rubin Project to report what fraction of Rubin Project-funded scientists self-identify as Black. Does the Project know the answer to this question?

I think that's an important reference for the goal of increasing the number of Black scientists in Rubin. I also think the goal should not just be about the number of Black scientists, but their success, retention, and empowerment within the project and science community.

Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 02:24PM: we thought about that when we created the original goal as well: should the goal be maximizing the the number of students that pursue or that complete a degree? complete a degree addresses retention (somewhat) but also feels very achievement oriented
Aprajita Verma Fri 2020-08-14 02:39PM: i might have misunderstood your comment here but I disagree that completing a degree addresses retention. For students completing a degree in a hostile environment is largely a labour of a love of physics/astro and is reflective of their commitment to achieving their personal goals in the face of adversity. Both students and staff face inexplicable and invisible barriers in a broad spectrum of conditions. 'Hostile' might not always be the best term to characterise the situation, but even subtle but continued, bad practice, inequities and low level harassment are sufficient to drive people from any subject, amplifying the leaky pipeline. Only lasting cultural, systemic and structural change can address retention.
Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 03:19PM: true true true! it is a closer step to retention than "engaging a degree" but certainly does not entirely address retention at all. I completely agree

mrawls Fri 2020-08-14 01:33PM

Indeed, we need to be careful not to focus all our time/energy on metrics that are relatively easy to measure (like number of Black people in Rubin) in lieu of harder things like changing the culture to make Black folks feel welcome.

Jovan Aleksic Fri 2020-08-14 01:33PM

:clap:

drphilmarshall Fri 2020-08-14 01:44PM

@brant If we do know the answer to that question, it's not at my finger tips (and it may not be up to date). I think this is something we could usefully learn from a climate/demographic survey. I don't think we should limit that survey to project-funded staff though: the Rubin / LSST community extends way beyond that. I hear what you are saying about wanting the success of Black students to be part of the broad agreed-upon goal - but I can see why the session organizers opted for their simpler goal for today's exercise.

Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 02:26PM: the SCs are talking about surveys (one by one for now, hopefully coordinated once we spin off the DEI council of the SCs
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Sun 2020-08-16 01:14PM: @Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) I'm very interested to great more about about SCs DEI council

brant Fri 2020-08-14 01:53PM

@drphilmarshall Thank you for the response and I appreciate that you care about this issue. I want the success of scientists (including students, postdoctoral scholars, and career staff) to be a goal. I think it's important to answer the question about current representation separately for project-funded scientists and the broader Rubin community, since the methods for improving representation in those groups may differ (e.g., Rubin project hiring practices vs. the outreach to and support of Black scientists in the community and in science collaborations; these are just examples, not a comprehensive list). I agree that we need to confront this issue in the whole project+broader Rubin community.

Robert Blum Sun 2020-08-16 12:41PM

@brant We agree success of black scientists should be a goal of Rubin and NOIRLab and SLAC. We will report on these numbers for staff funded by NSF and DOE through the Rubin Observatory.