Rubin2020_PCW slack archives day2-tue-slot1a-plenary-operations 2020-07-15---2020-08-13

Wed 2020-07-15 03:05PM
@Ranpal (she/her/hers) has joined the channel
Wed 2020-07-15 03:05PM
@Melissa Graham has joined the channel
Wed 2020-07-15 03:05PM
@Emily (she/her) has joined the channel
Robert Blum Thu 2020-07-23 05:43PM
this channel linked to web agenda fine
Melissa Graham Wed 2020-08-05 02:44PM
@Melissa Graham set the channel topic: Plenary 2 - Operations Q&A
Use the Zoom Q&A and this Slack channel to submit questions.
Pre-recorded presentations available: <>
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-07 12:33PM
Session:_Plenary 2 - Operations update + Q&A
Date/time: Tuesday August 11, 2020 - 9am PDT
Details:_ _- preview material
Advance questions_ _(available until Monday 10th)
Robert Blum Mon 2020-08-10 12:37PM
Bring your questions tomorrow for ops!
Knut Olsen Tue 2020-08-11 12:07PM
Nice hat!
Michael Strauss (he/his) Tue 2020-08-11 12:07PM
You should clarify that questions come through Q&A, not chat on the webinar (or this slack channel).
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Tue 2020-08-11 12:08PM
Michael i think you cannot type in the chat it is disabled
Michael Strauss (he/his) Tue 2020-08-11 12:08PM
Right. Bob's slides specifically said people can use chat to ask questions.
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Tue 2020-08-11 12:10PM
apologies for the confusion, since in the breakout meetings you can chat - we used the slide - an oversight on my part
Michael Strauss (he/his) Tue 2020-08-11 12:11PM
Got it; thanks!
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 12:07PM
Q: can you say more about how the science collabs will interact with the upcoming data previews - what is the plan for getting feedback from the sci collabs - and when will this all happen?
William O'Mullane Tue 2020-08-11 12:15PM
The plan for DP0 is forming in . We intend to allow scicolabs access to DP0. Since we are setting up the interim facility we are still discussing how broad that will be. We will certainly be looking for users from all the scicolabs.
mwv Tue 2020-08-11 12:40PM
Thanks, @Robert Blum
That was really great to hear that there is recognition that lots of great science will be done by people not part of science collaborations.

But that also it's reasonable to expect that the Project+Operations has an easier time organizing communication and interactions with organized groups (Science Collaborations).
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 12:41PM
... i wasn't really asking about the data access per se. It was more about the scientists being able to input into what is in the simulated data set, and then checking the outputs from the processing match up with what they expect from the inputs!
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 12:42PM
@William O'Mullane - yes - good to hear how the data processing feedback works and that this is in hand.
mwv Tue 2020-08-11 12:42PM
I don't think there's any coordinated plan to generate a set of simulations like this that encompass different science needs.
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 12:43PM
@mwv - ah! perhaps there should/could be? perhaps a request out to the sci collabs for ideas?
K-T Lim Tue 2020-08-11 12:45PM
Delivering DP0 by next spring doesn't give us much time to do new or additional simulations.
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 12:46PM
@K-T Lim - probably needs to be something for the second data preview
K-T Lim Tue 2020-08-11 12:46PM
That will (hopefully, depending on schedule/COVID-replan) be real data; we hope that's a lot more exciting than simulated data.
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 12:55PM
the problem with 'testing' on commissioning data is that scientists like to get the data published as quickly as possible and hence aren't always so interested in detailed QA/QC investigations of the data!
Melissa Graham Tue 2020-08-11 12:08PM
Questions can be posted here, this Slack channel is being monitored.
brant Tue 2020-08-11 12:10PM
Given the international in-kind partnership process, how will the Rubin Project enable the involvement of US scientists who are not affiliated with the Project but have been working on analyses, software, or ancillary data sets that may be covered by or compete with in-kind MOUs? Will US scientists be provided the opportunity to compete for similar, official partnerships with the Rubin Project?
mwv Tue 2020-08-11 12:33PM
Is your question a bit like:
An international partner might sign an MOU as part of an in-kind process. They would then ask their funding agencies to support the work to fulfill this in-kind. This would likely result in support of science+engineering personnel near their research groups. But in the US, there isn't the equivalent pull on the NSF and DOE agencies for a US-based group to claim they are making the same sort of in-kind contribution with the same imprimatur.
brant Tue 2020-08-11 12:34PM
Yes, this is one example.
brant Tue 2020-08-11 12:35PM
Thanks, Phil.
mwv Tue 2020-08-11 12:35PM
Thanks @drphilmarshall !
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 12:10PM
BTW: data preview one or two - will these simulate any low gal lat fields (so crowded fields for stellar work) (I thought I saw that the sim data is all from DESC)
Lynne Jones Tue 2020-08-11 12:12PM
And will they include asteroids and comets?
William O'Mullane Tue 2020-08-11 12:28PM
I reiterate we are still discussing the collaboration with DESC on this. I believe DC2 has only high gal lat fields. No proper motions and no asteroids - DESC could say more of course. @drphilmarshall
Chris Walter Tue 2020-08-11 12:38PM
DC2 had proper motions turned off - because at the time DM couldn't handle it.

(DM does now but it wasn't ready at the time)
Chris Walter Tue 2020-08-11 12:38PM
We didn't include asteroids in our model.
rmandelb Tue 2020-08-11 12:43PM
As @William O'Mullane said, this is an ongoing discussion, during which we (DESC) can provide some information about simulation tool capabilities that might help the Rubin Observatory team understand what alternatives/variants they might be able to produce easily with existing tooling, if that's of interest and within scope given their available effort.
drphilmarshall Tue 2020-08-11 12:45PM
Thanks all. Note that all of the above refers to DP0, which is the preview we'll be working on over the next year. DP1 and DP2 will be about preparing, releasing and supporting the (real) commissioning data.
William O'Mullane Tue 2020-08-11 12:45PM
Keith Bechtol Tue 2020-08-11 12:45PM
As Chuck mentions, we are planning to include some high-stellar-density fields and fields near the ecliptic during commissioning on-sky observations
Keith Bechtol Tue 2020-08-11 12:45PM
We can discuss further this afternoon
Keith Bechtol Tue 2020-08-11 12:46PM
(this is a comment about on-sky observations, rather than simulations)
rmandelb Tue 2020-08-11 12:50PM
Yep, I read the initial question mentioning simulations, and lost track of the larger point that DP1 and DP2 will use real data rather than simulations - thanks for the redirect! :slightly_smiling_face:
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 12:52PM
if the real commissioning data is delayed, there may be use in running a DP0.5 with simulated data meeting the requirements of a range of sci collabs (i'm interested in MW disk fields for instance - but others like to test out asteroids, etc!)
drphilmarshall Tue 2020-08-11 01:08PM
@Nicholas Walton Agreed: see Rachel's comment about using DESC tools to extend the DC2 data. An alternative approach could be to re-process some precursor data (eg from HSC) to provide an intermediate "DP0.5" dataset. We'll work on this over the next year as we get set up at the IDF and work on DP0.1 and DP0.2.
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 01:18PM
@drphilmarshall thnx - sounds good.
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 12:14PM
Q: USDF - is the specification for this as was envisaged when it was all going to be at the NCSA. Or is the idea to upscale/downscale on earlier plans?
K-T Lim Tue 2020-08-11 12:20PM
It is still possible that it will all be at NCSA...
Frossie Tue 2020-08-11 12:23PM
The specification for the USDF is based on the same sizing model that we were using with NCSA. Obviously in the intervening years technical plans have solidified and we have fed this additional information to the DOE Financial Opportunity process. To answer the actual question, it is neither an upscale nor a downscale in terms of capacity.
Hiranya Peiris Tue 2020-08-11 12:52PM
Is it correct that operations were due to start Oct 2022 but now due to Covid there is a delay on top of that, or were they supposed to start in Oct 2023 due to rebaselining and there is a Covid delay on top of that?
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 12:56PM
.... and 'operations' = full survey operations with the full camera (and no residual commissioning in there)?
William O'Mullane Tue 2020-08-11 12:57PM
Baseline start of Operations was Oct 2022 indeed full survey.
William O'Mullane Tue 2020-08-11 12:59PM
Some mini surveys have now been descoped from commissioning. There may be some form of those in operations .. but as you hear planning is still in progress.
Amanda Bauer Tue 2020-08-11 01:01PM
Note - We have not done the rebaseline yet. So the current plan still says the construction project finishes and the Operations team takes over to start the phase of "Survey Operations" by 1 Oct 2022. As described, the rebaseline process will most likely take place in a few months, then we will know a revised start date.
drphilmarshall Tue 2020-08-11 01:04PM
@Nicholas Walton Check out the "Early Science" session for how we could adapt, in the first few months of "survey operations" to a scenario where the commissioning time has been squeezed.
Hiranya Peiris Tue 2020-08-11 01:09PM
Thank you for all the replies!
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 01:13PM
@drphilmarshall - will do - thnx
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 12:59PM
Q: You have a Rubin/Euclid initiative - any plans for other joint work - Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope surveys for instance - as that isn't so far off now.
K-T Lim Tue 2020-08-11 01:04PM
See yesterday's session on external synergies.
Nicholas Walton Tue 2020-08-11 01:16PM
@K-T Lim - thnx - saw that. Q here was wondering whether there were any operational ideas to set up a joint working group for Nancy Roman or anything else (in addition to the euclid one mentioned in the operations slide deck).
K-T Lim Tue 2020-08-11 01:18PM
This thread mentions Roman:
George Beckett Tue 2020-08-11 01:00PM
Thanks to everyone. :clap:
Alison Rose Tue 2020-08-11 01:00PM
:wave: :clap:
David Buckley Tue 2020-08-11 01:01PM
Thanks! :+1:
andyxl Tue 2020-08-11 01:01PM
Sara Lucatello Tue 2020-08-11 01:04PM
Thank you!
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Thu 2020-08-13 05:30AM
The recording of the live session is here: