Rubin2020_PCW slack archives day5-fri-slot2b-lsstc-dei-programs 2020-07-15---2020-08-14

Wed 2020-07-15 02:55PM
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KBriamonte Wed 2020-08-05 08:08PM
@KBriamonte set the channel topic: Building Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion into New LSSTC Programs

Please join us for a brief panel discussion about this opportunity followed by some fun, interactive activities. All are welcome.
Wed 2020-08-05 10:43PM
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KBriamonte Fri 2020-08-14 10:59AM
KBriamonte Fri 2020-08-14 10:59AM
ajc Fri 2020-08-14 01:08PM
@Jeno Sokoloski How many subgroups will we have in the session
KBriamonte Fri 2020-08-14 01:18PM
We won't know until we see how many people are there. Yesterday we did 4 groups of 5-6.
Chuck Claver Fri 2020-08-14 01:25PM
Food for thought... To start we need to understand the root of the problem.... I have coached FIRST robotics for 3+ years - the diversity, equitability and inclusion is fantastic in the age group (8-12th grade) - I also have seen excellent DEI at the AAS meetings - it seems as younger people try to advance their careers there are implicit ceilings so that when you look at professional level conditions the DEI is quite poor. Why is that?
ajc Fri 2020-08-14 01:26PM
Google doc for notes for the breakout room sessions
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 01:27PM
Jim Annis Fri 2020-08-14 01:27PM
Personally, I think it is the focus on "the best" when selecting candidates, as usually people from the non-dominant group loose little tie-breakers from a life-time of missed-opportunities. @Chuck Claver
Chuck Claver Fri 2020-08-14 01:29PM
@Jim Annis Agree - perhaps another criteria should be potential to grow. We have done this with our interns and have had great success.
Russ Allbery Fri 2020-08-14 01:31PM
I think this goes hand in hand with industry's abandonment of teaching and learning on the job. Large corporations used to retrain their existing employees and teach them new skills; now they just hire someone who already has those skills. It shifts the burden and risk of career growth to the individual and away from the employer, so of course the people with more resources to do career growth as a hobby and pursue things in their non-work time (and who have more opportunities to do so) do far better.
Russ Allbery Fri 2020-08-14 01:31PM
So even if you get a foot in the door, you get pushed out again.
Chuck Claver Fri 2020-08-14 01:32PM
@Russ Allbery I think this is where the Rubin community can make a difference.
Russ Allbery Fri 2020-08-14 01:32PM
Yes, and the academic world in general.
Chuck Claver Fri 2020-08-14 01:37PM
It does involve some risk - but personally it is a risk I am willing to take and so far it's worked out well. Another example of where we can foster DEI is through the NSF's REU programs.
Chuck Claver Fri 2020-08-14 01:42PM
What role does LINCC have in mind for the younger groups - e.g. undergraduate and graduate students in addition to PostDocs?
ajc Fri 2020-08-14 01:50PM
Just a quick reminder that any notes you take during the breakout discussion can be captured in a google doc
KBriamonte Fri 2020-08-14 01:50PM
The instructions have been pinned above.
ajc Fri 2020-08-14 01:53PM
@KBriamonte how many rooms do we have?
Dan Taranu Fri 2020-08-14 01:55PM
There are three of us in room 4 - shall we go ahead or wait for more to be added?
ajc Fri 2020-08-14 01:57PM
there are 4 in room 2 if you want to join
KBriamonte Fri 2020-08-14 01:57PM
We have 13 rooms
Michael Solontoi Fri 2020-08-14 01:57PM
four in room 8(?) - and one (me) is having connectivity issues...
KBriamonte Fri 2020-08-14 01:59PM
@ajc Kevin moving people around to even it out. we now have 12 rooms occupied.
KBriamonte Fri 2020-08-14 02:17PM
Five minute warning
KBriamonte Fri 2020-08-14 02:19PM
one minute
ajc Fri 2020-08-14 02:21PM
everyone should be back now
mwv Fri 2020-08-14 02:23PM
LINCC can fill in the spaces between individual donors (and agencies) priorities to ensure that LSST Corporation can support a coherent program from high school, college, grad school, postdoc, career, leadership. This will require adeptness and finesse.
Rob Bovill Fri 2020-08-14 02:24PM
From Group 5:
When funding workshops, allocate funding for participation by members of underrepresented groups or those from institutes with less travel funding, and advertise this prominently to those groups.
James Davenport Fri 2020-08-14 02:25PM
From Group 1: LINCC can be overly focused on science outcomes if we have scientists act as "peer reviewers" of opportunities or funding; they aren't good at selecting unbiased samples of their peers.
mrawls Fri 2020-08-14 02:25PM
One important thing that came up in our breakout was donor intent and timescales. If donors' politics or priorities don't align with our goals then our goals are more likely to change to match. If all funding awards are for short time periods (e.g. traditional 1-2 year postdocs), that doesn't help people build careers - they have to scramble to stay in the field or find another position when the funds end.
Preethi Nair Fri 2020-08-14 02:25PM
Organizations that LSST should consult with or advertise to:
1. Society of Physics students

2. APS, AAPT and other professional STEM organizations beyond AAS

3. AAAS. See the Seachange project:

4. CUWiP for recruitment.

5. Minority STEM groups.
William O'Mullane Fri 2020-08-14 02:26PM
see also
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 02:27PM
i need to look at the above to add to my list
Preethi Nair Fri 2020-08-14 02:49PM
@William O'Mullane @Ranpal (she/her/hers) the list I gave are either student organizations or advocacy organizations, not job hiring sites. There will likely be some overlap.
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 02:54PM
the list I'm creating is a resource for hiring managers to go out of their way to find diverse candidates - they can be chapters, societies etc as well
Preethi Nair Fri 2020-08-14 02:59PM
That's great! Thanks for compiling the list.
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 02:26PM
If you only use the same channels you keep reaching the same people, need to go outside the usual places
Chuck Claver Fri 2020-08-14 02:26PM
Primary takeaway's from our group - we recommend to LSSTC to think bigger along the lines of fostering establishing a dedicated foundation in addition to asking for donation from existing foundation; takeaway 2 is LSSTC should think about support along the entire pipeline from high school through PostDoc - how do we retain the diversity observed at the younger groups through to profession.
Pat Burchat Fri 2020-08-14 02:28PM
Design and offer research programs for high school and college students that can help with retention of students who are interested in science but don't yet see themselves as "scientists".
Preethi Nair Fri 2020-08-14 02:28PM
Engage with existing programs like LSAMP, bridge programs, HBCU faculty etc to design the program at the start and not impose a plan.
Andrés Plazas (he/him/his) Fri 2020-08-14 02:28PM
Group 13: Worst possible outcome: business as usual, e.g., funding all white males from established positions/institutions (mostly R1), in opaque processes without actively focusing on DEI and without accountability. Steps to avoid the pitfalls: external and independent advisory/trustee board, especially involving underrepresented minorities (e.g., ), and consult with external organizations such as
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 02:31PM
Thank you ! :clap:
Amanda Bauer Fri 2020-08-14 02:49PM
@Jeno Sokoloski Great idea to use the "worst possible outcome" scenario for the breakouts. I found it to be very effective for this activity and will use it in the future :+1:
Adam Thornton Fri 2020-08-14 02:54PM
Dangerous when you have a population of cosmologists, though. "Heat Death or Big Crunch. Next!"
Jim Annis Fri 2020-08-14 03:03PM
I definitely vote for heat death!
Preethi Nair Fri 2020-08-14 02:58PM
Some other programs to consult with:

7. McNair program

8. Institute for Broadening Participation. Specifically their pathways to science initiative:
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Fri 2020-08-14 08:25PM
The recording of the live session is here::