Rubin2020_PCW slack archives day1-mon-slot3b-external-synergies 2020-07-15---2020-08-11

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Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-07 02:12PM
@Melissa Graham set the channel topic: External Synergies for Rubin Community Science
Chairs: Sam Schmidt, Jeff Newman, Tim Eifler
Zoom link, agenda, pre-recorded videos:
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-07 02:13PM
@Samuel Schmidt the Roman Space Telescope video is now embedded in the session webpage
(thanks to @Emily (she/her) !!)
Samuel Schmidt Fri 2020-08-07 09:02PM
Hello External Synergies participants!
In preparation for an active discussion during our session on Monday we have asked members of several synergistic projects to put together short informative videos or slides for participants to view before the session._You can find two presentations on the Roman Space Telescope_on the now (link is also in the channel topic at the top of this channel for quick reference). Presentations for Euclid, CMB, and DESI will be added in the near future._
Also, note that clicking on the second slide in the Roman "slide deck presentation" will bring up a short youtube video.

For the session, we will have a panel with representatives from synergistic projects who will discuss_opportunities for Rubin Observatory and upcoming surveys to enable new science by combining data sets._I will post a few questions below, participants are free to add your own questions on this Slack channel (watching our pre-view materials may help in formulating questions)._
We are asking you to_ upvote questions _that you would like to see discussed with a Slack reaction with either a :thumbsup: or a :heavy_plus_sign: ._ For those who are not frequent slack users, you can add a reaction by either mousing over the question and clicking the "add reaction" smiley face with a + sign in the menu to the right, or by clicking on an existing reaction if someone has already added a :thumbsup: to the post._

We will prioritize questions with more upvotes during the session._We will also do our best to answer any questions that we do not have time to cover live here on the Slack channel in the days following the session._We are hoping for a wide cross-section of questions covering a variety of science cases and topic areas, so please do not hesitate to add your question.

So, here are some questions to get things started, feel free to upvote these questions now, or post your own questions (I've added a thumbsup to every question to start things off):
Samuel Schmidt Fri 2020-08-07 09:03PM
What obstacles have you encountered in the past when trying to undertake joint analyses or collaborative efforts across multiple projects?_ How can we improve the situation for Rubin?
Samuel Schmidt Fri 2020-08-07 09:03PM
What lessons can we learn from current generation surveys, e.g. KiDS + Viking, DES, HSC?_ Are there examples of teams which have done cross-project collaboration well, and what enabled that?
Samuel Schmidt Fri 2020-08-07 09:03PM
A unique aspect of LSST is the many real-time alerts that will result._ Have there been any good examples of real-time coordination across surveys that we should try to emulate?
Samuel Schmidt Fri 2020-08-07 09:03PM
How can we best identify joint needs between projects and collaborate to take advantage of available person-power and not duplicate effort?_ (e.g. training fields, simulations, software, etc...)
Samuel Schmidt Fri 2020-08-07 09:04PM
Datasets we are discussing have widely varying data structures (e.g., imaging vs. spectroscopic) and resolutions (higher than Rubin for Roman/Euclid, lower for SphereX and CMB experiments)._ What are the best ways to enable joint analyses or joint catalogs incorporating these various types of information?
Samuel Schmidt Fri 2020-08-07 09:04PM
What sort of simulations would be needed to jointly interpret data from your survey and Rubin data?_ Do those simulations exist, are they planned, or is this an unmet need?
Samuel Schmidt Fri 2020-08-07 09:04PM
Timelines: what precursor data can be used ahead of the more long-term projects to develop algorithms, metrics, and estimate impacts of various effects?
Samuel Schmidt Fri 2020-08-07 09:04PM
Has your project been planning to use Rubin data?_ Using public releases or in collaboration with Rubin science collaborations?
Samuel Schmidt Fri 2020-08-07 09:04PM
For joint analyses, how much independent analysis do we want to do before combining?_ Are there concerns about potential systematics propagating to multiple surveys by tying everything together too early?_ Can we mitigate those concerns with systematics tests, cross correlations of systematics, etc....?
Jeff Newman (he/his) Sat 2020-08-08 10:12PM
Feel free to add more potential questions for upvotes here!
Preethi Nair Sun 2020-08-09 12:07AM
Are their any plans to set up collaboration with the SRG eROSITA/ART-XC?
Jeff Newman (he/his) Sun 2020-08-09 01:41AM
@Franz Bauer might be able to answer that ? I could imagine there could be potential in-kind contributions related to eROSITA.
Franz Bauer Mon 2020-08-10 01:47PM
I am not able to answer that (not involved in eROSITA). I have not seen anything specific as yet, but perhaps there a submission to the In-kind committee...
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:21PM
OK, since you are coordinating the AGN follow-up group I hoped you might have seen something or know who to ask...
Franz Bauer Mon 2020-08-10 02:33PM
Seb Hoenig and Xiaohui Fan are the AGN in-kind reps, and may have insider info. I've not heard anything from eROSITA teams (German or Russian leads) reaching out formally.
Jeff Newman (he/his) Sun 2020-08-09 01:42AM
(The panel members are: David Alonso [Oxford], Renée Hložek [Dunlap], Alexie Leauthaud [UCSC], Dan Masters [JPL], Peter Melchior [Princeton], and Michael Troxel [Duke] )
Jeff Newman (he/his) Sun 2020-08-09 09:54PM
Reminder: this session is on Monday!
09:00 HST - 12:00 PT - 15:00 EDT - 21:00 CEST - 05:00 AET +1

Zoom Meeting ID:_
949 3550 2674
Zoom Link:_
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:35PM
@channel reminder: the session will begin in 25 minutes. Please post any questions for the panel here in Slack, and vote for your favorites above (or for any new questions that come in) with a thumbs-up!
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:57PM
Link with password:
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:57PM
@Jeff Newman (he/his) set the channel topic: <>

Zoom link, agenda, pre-recorded videos:
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 02:58PM
If you are asked for a password it is 257500
Rstreet Mon 2020-08-10 03:19PM
There is additional scientific potential in combining Roman and Rubin observations of the Galactic Bulge, by coordinating Rubin observations of the Roman Galactic Exoplanet Survey region. Can the organizers comment on the potential here?
Peter Melchior Mon 2020-08-10 03:41PM
Do I understand correctly: you'd like to use Roman + Rubin to extend the time period the bulge is covered, or do you want simultaneous coverage?
Rstreet Mon 2020-08-10 03:48PM
Both - the two strategies provide different constraints on the exoplanet population, as well as other stellar populations in the Plane
Peter Melchior Mon 2020-08-10 03:59PM
What kind of measurements would you want to have for either strategy?
Rstreet Mon 2020-08-10 04:01PM
Time-series imaging - we are after the photometry cadence rather than the imaging. I can send you links to the white papers where this is explained in detail if you would like.
Peter Melchior Mon 2020-08-10 04:02PM
Please do
leanne Mon 2020-08-10 03:28PM
There is no agreement yet between Roman Euclid and Rubin to do joint processing. A working group has just been set up to explore possibilities for joint analysis and recommend an initial set of DDPs
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 03:30PM
@leanne Do you mean Euclid there? (I know of the Rubin-Euclid DDP Working Group but haven't heard about anything with Roman (formerly WFIRST)?
brant Mon 2020-08-10 03:30PM
Where is there info on this working group? I am on the Roman FSWG and I'm not aware of it.
leanne Mon 2020-08-10 03:33PM
@Jeff Newman (he/his) yes - typo ... will correct
leanne Mon 2020-08-10 03:35PM
@brant From the Rubin side, an announcement was made on 5d ago by Bob Blum :
brant Mon 2020-08-10 03:42PM
Yes, I asked to represent Galaxies on this Rubin-Euclid WG but was not selected. There is a Roman community science workshop being planned for the October-November window, so we should coordinate so scientists working in multiple projects can attend.
Aprajita Verma Mon 2020-08-10 04:03PM
hi @brant Are Roman-Rubin synergies on the schedule for the the workshop?
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 04:04PM
I'm pretty sure not. This discussion is focused only on Euclid right now .
brant Mon 2020-08-10 04:07PM
@Aprajita Verma we haven't determined the schedule for the *Roman* workshop yet.
Aprajita Verma Mon 2020-08-10 04:09PM
ok thanks, possibly worthwhile adding it? At least those involved in both can get some momentum behind discussions between the two groups.
Monika I. Jurkovic Mon 2020-08-10 03:34PM
How widely will the Rubin Observatory data output be available to everybody or are there some constrains? (Maybe this is not the right panel to ask this, but since the synergy between different datasets are discussed I thought it is relevant.)
Chris Walter Mon 2020-08-10 03:37PM
There are many discussions (here and elsewhere) of joint work and coordination between two projects. What is the danger that choices (selection/analysis etc) used in these bilateral plans might sometimes be inconsistent with each other? Is there motivation to try to have wider discussions for there choices that encompass the multiple projects so as to allow multiple combinations and also avoid duplicated work?
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 03:43PM
Question from @Sukanya Chakrabarti on Zoom: Is there a WG that is looking into synergies between Roman and Rubin?
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 03:45PM
ack copy and paste fail, sorry
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 03:45PM
Answer from Rachel Street and Brant Robertson: there is no working group, but there is overlap in people
brant Mon 2020-08-10 03:46PM
There is no working group, but there are a large number of scientists involved with Roman that are also involved with Rubin. The Rubin DESC and Roman HLS Cosmology, and the Rubin Galaxies and Roman EXPO SITs have lots of overlap
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 03:46PM
and the topic was discussed in cadence white papers.
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 03:46PM
(sorry, it seems i can't copy directly from zoom chat)
brant Mon 2020-08-10 03:46PM
And in the Galaxies Science Road Map
Sukanya Chakrabarti Mon 2020-08-10 03:47PM
Chris Walter Mon 2020-08-10 03:48PM
Not being able to copy from the zoom chat is a problem that many (all?) of us have. I actually looked into this once and the documentation implies there is a security option that controls this, but it didn't seem to work.
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 03:49PM
that would explain it. i'm pretty sure i've copied from other zoom chats.
Preethi Nair Tue 2020-08-11 04:09PM
@Chris Walter @Jeff Newman (he/his) The zoom chats get saved once the session ends, so you can copy it afterwards.
Chris Walter Tue 2020-08-11 04:28PM
Right.. be we usually need it during the meeting. The strange thing is that the documentation/config pages imply that if you allow the chat to be saved you should be able to copy-text and vice-versa.

But, I tried a few tests and as I recall that didn't seem to change anything.
Preethi Nair Tue 2020-08-11 04:32PM
If you select the chat message and right click, Zoom gives you multiple options. Including "search with google". This will copy the entire text into a browser google window. Then you can copy it. Bit tedious but it works.
Chris Walter Tue 2020-08-11 04:33PM
Interesting. I never thought of that. I know e.g. the copy option is there but greyed out, it didn't occur to me to try to use others. Thanks!
Preethi Nair Tue 2020-08-11 04:35PM
No problem! :slightly_smiling_face: There sometimes is a copy to clipboard option. That hasn't worked for me.
Jeff Newman (he/his) Mon 2020-08-10 04:01PM
Question from @Jens Jasche : Will there be funding for joint analyses? If it is underfunded it is likely there will be no outcome.
Lorena Hernandez Mon 2020-08-10 04:01PM
Gregory Dubois-Felsmann Mon 2020-08-10 04:01PM
Regarding the time-domain "coordination" topic just started at the end of the session:

We need to understand whether we are talking about "coordinating" Rubin in the sense of changing Rubin observing plans in response to external events, or about improving the ability of the community to use Rubin alerts to trigger other activities._Those are *very* different things.
Rbiswas4 Mon 2020-08-10 04:02PM
Is there a place we can read more about the plans to publish the planned observing schedule of Rubin 2 hours or more in advance ?
Gregory Dubois-Felsmann Mon 2020-08-10 04:22PM
I'll track that down for you.
Gregory Dubois-Felsmann Mon 2020-08-10 05:45PM
In the Observatory System Specifications (high-level requirements document) we have:
Advanced Publishing of Scheduler Sequence ID: OSS-REQ-0378
Specification : The scheduling of the observing sequence lasting at least schedSeqDuration [2 hours] shall be published in advance of each observing visit.
Gregory Dubois-Felsmann Mon 2020-08-10 05:47PM
At the Data Management system level we say, slightly more concretely:
Publishing predicted visit schedule
ID: DMS-REQ-0353 (Priority: 1b)
Specification: A service shall be provided to publish to the community the next visit location and the predicted visit schedule provided by the OCS. This service shall consist of both a web page for human inspection and a web API to allow automated tools to respond promptly.
Gregory Dubois-Felsmann Mon 2020-08-10 05:52PM
The IVOA standardization effort I mentioned is "ObsLocTAP":
Rbiswas4 Mon 2020-08-10 08:14PM
great thank you!
Mara Salvato Tue 2020-08-11 08:07AM
Did somebody contacted J-PAS? even if shallower than LSST and covering only partially the field, J-PAS with its Narrow-Band photometry provides essentially low-resolution spectroscopy. This is valuable in particular for AGN, even if the data will simply pintpoint the presence of an emission line rather than providing the continuum (see ).
Jeff Newman (he/his) Tue 2020-08-11 12:46PM
It's really really shallow for DESC science so I don't think any of the panelists had much experience there. It could certainly be relevant for brighter AGN.
Jeff Newman (he/his) Tue 2020-08-11 12:48PM
(It was not discussed)
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Tue 2020-08-11 08:32AM
The recording of the live session is here: