Rubin2020_PCW slack archives day1-mon-slot3a-community-support 2020-07-15---2020-08-13

Wed 2020-07-15 03:05PM
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Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-07 02:10PM
@Melissa Graham set the channel topic: Community Support for Science with Rubin Observatory
Chairs: Melissa Graham and Jeff Carlin
Melissa Graham Fri 2020-08-07 02:10PM
@Melissa Graham set the channel topic: Community Support for Science with Rubin Observatory
Chairs: Melissa Graham and Jeff Carlin
Access Zoom link, agenda, slides, and feedback form at:
Sun 2020-08-09 09:59PM
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Mon 2020-08-10 01:02PM
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Mon 2020-08-10 01:05PM
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Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 02:46PM password 257500
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 03:05PM
Feedback form:
Chris Lintott Mon 2020-08-10 03:16PM
@Jeff Carlin @Melissa Graham Thanks for mentioning Citizen Science - just to say I'm around to answer questions from a Zooniverse perspective too.
Kathy Vivas Mon 2020-08-10 03:20PM
Interaction of CET with the community will be mostly done through the Science Collaborations?
Dara Norman Mon 2020-08-10 03:22PM
I want to encourage asking people from some what "outside the Rubin community " to be on the user's committee. so folks not in science collaborations
Dara Norman Mon 2020-08-10 03:28PM
To be more clear, want to make sure there is feedback to understand why community members are not in science collaborations , have left or become estranged from science collaborations.
Robert Blum Mon 2020-08-10 03:29PM
Excellent point. I agree that will be useful as we go forward
Frossie Mon 2020-08-10 03:29PM
Interesting. Are there any studies from previous projects that cover why people become estranged from science collaborations? I would be very interested in reading them
drphilmarshall Mon 2020-08-10 03:36PM
@Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) may have information and/or comments on this. I agree it's an important issue for us to understand, given the resources that the science collaborations will accumulate and deploy.
Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 04:00PM
@Frossie there is no parallel really in previous project corresponding to the SCs: previous project have member institutes and participation in science teams through that in general - this is the only project that I know where there is a "grassroot movement" to organize the SC community
Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 04:00PM
so im not sure we can study past examples to understand that
Frossie Mon 2020-08-10 04:00PM
I didn't necessarily mean in astronomy, I assume there are some generic issues at play? Eg particle physics.
Robert Blum Mon 2020-08-10 04:01PM
Its the public nature of Rubin's LSST that makes it different.
Jim Annis Mon 2020-08-10 04:01PM
I'm thinking this as a way to identify problems: if graduate students are flowing in or out of a particular science collaboration at rates not like the others, it would be interesting to learn why.
Frossie Mon 2020-08-10 04:01PM
I am interested in the dynamics of open collaborations from my open source software work, hence my question
Robert Blum Mon 2020-08-10 04:02PM
@Dara Norman post included understanding than more than just people that left. We know the US astro community is much bigger than the current SC enrollment.
Frossie Mon 2020-08-10 04:02PM
Biases are often expressed in silent drop of participation and I was wondering whether that is what @Dara Norman was thinking about people becoming disengaged
Frossie Mon 2020-08-10 04:03PM
(this is a common issue with women's participation in open source projects)
brant Mon 2020-08-10 04:05PM
@drphilmarshall @Dara Norman I think we also need to understand how the SC members have become disengaged from Rubin. I know that (some) SCs have been not heavily engaged, and while some of that disengagement is connected with the lack of funding, some is certainly Rubin's culture.
Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 04:06PM
@Frossie we have a lot of attention to DEI and several initiatives with the SCs - we will touch on them on Wed, I hope you can be there and ask this questoin there!
Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 04:07PM
@brant yup: lack of funding and also difficulties in maintaining engagement on long time scales
Federica Bianco (she/her/hers) Mon 2020-08-10 04:08PM
and @Frossie if you are interested and would like to investigate this more closely do hit me up!
mrawls Mon 2020-08-10 03:28PM
Have to step out early but thank you for putting together an excellent session, and +1000 to making sure we design our community support system for folks who aren't already plugged into the project or science collaborations
ldacosta Mon 2020-08-10 03:54PM
How can I check the SCs one a member ?
Meg Schwamb Mon 2020-08-10 03:56PM
Each SC has a website and application to join
ldacosta Mon 2020-08-10 05:42PM
ldacosta Mon 2020-08-10 08:11PM
Sara (Rosaria) Bonito Mon 2020-08-10 04:00PM
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 04:00PM
Thanks all for being here!! :clap:
Dragana Ilic Mon 2020-08-10 04:00PM
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 04:01PM
Oh dang the Zoom session ended before I could copy-past the Zoom chat so I will have to wait for the transcript - but it will be ready for us later today.
leanne Mon 2020-08-10 04:06PM
This is exactly why we did not use Zoom chat in the algorithms workshop session.
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 04:08PM
Oh but the Zoom chat worked well live, and we did answer some questions from it. I think it was still worth it.
Melissa Graham Mon 2020-08-10 04:09PM
I just didn't think our Zoom settings were that "the meeting is ended when the host leaves". I need to check this.
Preethi Nair Tue 2020-08-11 04:05PM
@Melissa Graham The chat messages get saved if you are recording the sessions.
Preethi Nair Tue 2020-08-11 04:36PM
Also, if you select the chat message and right click, Zoom gives you multiple options, including "search with google". This will copy the entire text into a browser google window. Then you can copy it. Bit tedious but it works.
Melissa Graham Thu 2020-08-13 05:56PM
Hi @Preethi Nair thanks for this - I'm just now doing a final pass through the Slacks that I missed in real time. Yes the chats get saved as transcript with the recording -- and also one can highlight all text and click-and-drag into, e.g., a TextEdit window. Just in this case, the session ended before I did that. NBD! All good though, and thank you for these messages.
Erik Tollerud Mon 2020-08-10 04:01PM
Thanks for all that, lots of great stuff here! one question: the description at the very end of the presentation for the science-driven modification feels rather complex (in a process sense) in cases where scientists actually know how to solve the problem - e.g., a scientist might say "if you set parameter X to value Z, it fixes things with little-to-no tradeoff". Is the process described there meant as a "hand-holding" process as it were, with a more direct route for those who have more experience with an issue tracker, etc? Or is that meant to be the primary process regardless of the expertise of the scientist who identifies the issue in the first place?
Jeff Carlin Mon 2020-08-10 04:07PM
That's a great question, and part of the reason we are compiling Use Cases. I agree that the one we presented seems "heavy-handed," and we want to think through how to ensure that the process isn't too burdensome. However, the other consideration is protecting the time and energy of project staff (e.g., software developers) by playing the role of liaison and facilitating the resolution. We want a process that shields project staff from constant barrages of requests, but ensures that requests are heard and addressed.
Jeff Carlin Mon 2020-08-10 04:08PM
Re: and issue tracker - I don't imagine that anyone who is not part of the project will have access to internal tools, so I think that we do sorta need to "hold their hand" in that aspect.
Erik Tollerud Mon 2020-08-10 04:10PM
Gotcha, that motivation definitely makes sense and I know well the importance of threading that needle of not overly-"poking" staff that need to focus.

But I am surprised to hear that the issue tracker is only open to project members. Isn't at least some of this on github and thus open to all? (Or am I thinking of a different issue tracker?)
Jeff Carlin Mon 2020-08-10 04:15PM
Ah, sorry if I misunderstood. I was thinking of our Jira issue tracking, and perhaps you were referring to github. All Rubin/LSST code is open source and available on github, but LSST DM does not use git issues as part of our workflow. (That is all tracked in Jira tickets.)
Erik Tollerud Mon 2020-08-10 04:15PM
Gotcha. I am having deja vu in that we have similar confusions all the time in the STScI DMD land...
Jeff Carlin Mon 2020-08-10 04:15PM
Hopefully this makes sense. But your overall point is well taken. Thanks!
parejkoj Mon 2020-08-10 04:43PM
Speaking as a developer and not someone who sets policy: if a ticket or Community issue is filed for a package I'm working on, with a test case for the bug and description of how to fix it, I'd certainly be very happy!
Melissa Graham Thu 2020-08-13 05:58PM
@parejkoj maybe if you have a moment, a use-case from your perspective would be a good addition via our
Alex Drlica-Wagner (he/him) Thu 2020-08-13 07:20PM
There are several cases of GitHub issues from the community being turned into DM Jira tickets:
Jeff Carlin Mon 2020-08-10 04:02PM
Thanks everyone! We'll keep an eye on this channel for any new or ongoing discussions throughout the week.
Luis Pineda Mon 2020-08-10 04:03PM
Ranpal (she/her/hers) Tue 2020-08-11 08:32AM
The recording of the live session is here:
Melissa Graham Thu 2020-08-13 06:00PM
@here Just a reminder that there is a soliciting your past experiences and future expectations for community support, as well as your input on the structure and usability of . Many thanks to those of you who have submitted your feedback via that form :thankyou: .